Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 10:44:49 GMT
What im trying to say is we are all the same, members of the human race My grandmother used to tell me there were good and bad from all nations and she was born in 1881. to say one group of people are less likely to have one flaw rather then another group suggests a differences when we are all the same but I suspect we are on the same side.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 14:25:42 GMT
Erm, yes...my point was that discrimination does happen but more against women and non-white people, hence it is a worthy thing to try to create a level playing field (appropriate metaphor for Lewes FC I think).
|
|
owner1388
East Sussex Football League
Posts: 24
|
Post by owner1388 on Jun 18, 2019 15:01:49 GMT
What im trying to say is we are all the same, members of the human race My grandmother used to tell me there were good and bad from all nations and she was born in 1881. to say one group of people are less likely to have one flaw rather then another group suggests a differences when we are all the same but I suspect we are on the same side. Hi Fred, your Grandma sounds pretty cool, though unfortunately not everyone is as 'woke' as her, as we know, and her perception isn't the reality that many people experience from day to day. Discrimation exists disproportionately, and I think that's the issue being highlighted on the thread [and not that it should exist proportionately either!].
In terms of how it seems many posters feel about the "unequal" treatment of the men's team; yes, this is how many women/fans of women's football have felt for decades, and yes, you are experiencing a massive weight of effort towards promoting the woman's team. But perhaps people are feeling this way because that 'catch-up' effort wasn't there before, and to some this argument could almost come across as though some posters believe all news/effort/money/resources should only be given to men's football, but I don't believe any of you would think that.
‘‘Twas always so. How often do you hear of racism claims where the victim is white? Or sexism claims where the victim is a man. Not never but rarely. Itseems that the wrongs of the past have to be righted by punishing the groups perceived to have perpetrated those wrongs even though the present members of those groups do not share those values. Discuss." Believer
"Has Equality FC been a mere cycnical marketing tool at the expense of building a community club organically ?" Chris Harris
But how affected is the men's team by this effort? "...at the expense of"? Is the men's team being discriminated against? Is there less news, less effort, less money, less resources for the male team? Do posters think there would be anymore news/effort/money/resources if there was no woman's team? I'd like to know how posters feel the woman's team is actually affecting the men's because I believe that's what many of you are suggesting in this thread. Any factual evidence will suggest discrimination but I have yet to see any myself.
If your answers are yes to the questions above then I personally would have trouble working out where the news/effort/money/resources/etc would come from. If your answers are no then what I believe we are witnessing and experiencing is not discrimination of the men's team, but simply a second tier team being managed and funded compared to a seventh tier side, and being done very equally when you consider that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 20:16:51 GMT
I do agree with you Baronsdownrook and I do have a History of having a little rant now and again usually against the wrong people.
|
|
|
Post by Fhorum Mhember 22 on Jun 19, 2019 10:35:26 GMT
I do see the point (I think) Believer makes. Sure, discrimination is probably moreso towards some people - women, non-whites, Scots, vegans,...
But sometimes, people bang on about how they should be treated the same as others, and then when it suits, suggest 'you have to make allowances for us, we're different'. Sometimes you're not allowed to make a sensible point, without being accused of being a something-ist. Sometimes, people think their argument is more valid, just because they feel they're on the moral high ground, even if their argument is incoherent.
I can see why that happens. If people feel very strongly about something, sometimes emotions take over, people are defensive, rational thought goes oot the windae.
The Club has decided to make the playing budgets the same. That's equality. They've decided that entry to women's games should be less than men's games. That's not equality.
But you can see the reasons for it. Giving the women a matching budget, rather than increasing in stages, will (should) help their performances - but moreover, it's the basis for getting the Equality campaign off the ground, and bringing attention to the Club. Increasing admission from £3 to £11 (as I think it was), in one fell swoop, would be a bit much to ask, when you're trying to build something.
So I like when Stuart explains it along the lines of "yeah, fair enough, but the gap has closed, and it will be equal soon". But when people are in denial about the inconsistencies, that gets my goat.
Nhorm (Capricorn)
|
|
krook
Sussex County Division One
Posts: 389
|
Post by krook on Jun 19, 2019 14:17:19 GMT
I agree with the club on the point of not raising the woman’s admission prices to the same as the men’s,firstly because i think it would put a lot of people off because of the price especially being in the league we’re in.wheather we would ever get enough people through the gates if in the top division to pay £12 per game every home game is another matter i myself would be very doubtful.
|
|
|
Post by stuartnoel on Jun 19, 2019 17:29:14 GMT
One of the maxim’s I’ve always used in life is “Price is only an issue in the absence of value...”
|
|
krook
Sussex County Division One
Posts: 389
|
Post by krook on Jun 19, 2019 17:44:19 GMT
Hi stuartnoel,whose to say if you would or wouldn’t get value for money if the woman ever got into the woman’s super league ,is their a minimum price you have to charge in the super league?
|
|
|
Post by stuartnoel on Jun 19, 2019 21:15:20 GMT
I’m sure there is but don’t know what that figure is.
Not sure if I mentioned before that there is also a minimum any club can charge in the Isthmian League
|
|
krook
Sussex County Division One
Posts: 389
|
Post by krook on Jun 19, 2019 22:15:32 GMT
Yes I did no their was a minimum charge and we charge as at last season the higher price for admission is that correct.
|
|
|
Post by chrisharris on Jun 20, 2019 13:13:33 GMT
The core ‘Objects’ of our community club adventure are below 4.1 enhancing the social, cultural and economic value of the Club to its Communities and by acting as a responsible custodian of the club for future generations.
Three Board members have privately admitted to me the club has ‘lost the town’ How is our sharply rising operating losses, approved by the Board, acting as a responsible Board. Relying on rich men’s cheque books is the opposite to this.
4.2 upholding the mutual ownership of the Club operating democratically, fairly and transparently.
The head of Supporters Direct admitted to me there is significant room for improvement. Most of the Board had a ’bye’ onto the Board, being free with information about signings does not negate the fact that as he said, the publicising of financial information by the club to it’s members needs to improve.
4.3 ensuring the Club operates with financial responsibility enabling the Club to be run for the long term interest of the Community.
Absolutely no sign of this as the reluctance to ‘share’ the financial information on our parlous losses continues.
4.4 providing sporting facilities and opportunities regardless of age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality, religious or moral belief.
Surpassed expectations. However, this has been achieved through huge financial risk.
4.5 playing at the highest level possible, but always operating in a financially responsible and prudent manner.
Yup, we are doing this but not in any shape or form in a financially responsible way.
In my view the Board got bored of trying to achieve these aims through proper good housekeeping and have thrown their cheque books at doing it. Community Club seems to merely be lip service and a useful branding tool to achieve their aims. Again the introduction of budget parity was the significant defining moment is saying sod it to working to grow organically through the community, let’s throw private money at it. Sure there is some great community stuff going on, the members of the Board work tirelessly to run the club on a good operational basis. However they seem to be blind to the true ethos of proper community ownership. If you read the constitution, it is actually bloody good and if adhered to would create a great community club. As much of it has been ignored we have failed in our core aim.
|
|
krook
Sussex County Division One
Posts: 389
|
Post by krook on Jun 20, 2019 15:03:02 GMT
I may seem all doom and gloom, but I’ve always said the club will never be self sufficient the town is not big enough and we would need a lot more owners bye a good few more thousand even at this level.So it does make me wonder what will happen to the club in a few years time iff we don’t have anyone putting money in or any big sponsors ,but we will see and hope i am completely wrong.
|
|
|
Post by stuartnoel on Jun 21, 2019 6:52:00 GMT
Chris - would love to know which 3 directors had said that as facts would say otherwise - attendances up by 50% in three seasons for the Men’s side, about 200% on the Women’s side. We run more teams at a junior level than we ever have (Lewes FC Juniors, U15 and U16 Girls teams), we run more teams at a community level than we ever have (Mental Wellbeing, Vets), have more owners from local area than we ever have, more volunteers than we have had in years and more Support and Save businesses than we ever have from the local area. Perhaps we are missing another untapped stream here so feel free to share that. Personally, and forgive me for not being from Lewes here, but I’d say we are now more part of the town than we have been since becoming a Community Club.
In terms of the Supporters Direct point, as you know I was (and technically still am until 29th June) a Director of Supporters Direct and still know James Matthie (point of correction here as he was the head of club liaison not the head of Supporters Direct). Lewes Community Football Club is still held in very high regard for the work we have done and continue to do both within Supporters Direct but also within the fan-owned sports movement. When we (you, James and myself) met in the Rights of Man in Lewes prior to a game 18 months ago, James said there and then that the approach clubs took wasn’t a one size fits all. Having been party to the regular board meetings for SD I can assure you no concerns were ever raised about the governance of Lewes FC.
|
|
|
Post by cockneyexile on Jul 20, 2019 8:53:24 GMT
Interesting thread.
I imagine the huge publicity regarding Equal pay for the women's team has driven up the number of owners?
As an occasional follower of Tottenham Women it is obvious that success comes at a price. Spurs are always keen to highlight their community credentials but since I have been watching them (2013) only around 3 of the local girls are left in the side.
Hence it has gone from a predominantly black/ethnic minority side to predominantly white side.
Sorry for derailing.
|
|
|
Post by pellsfan on Jul 20, 2019 12:27:21 GMT
Good question. I'm sure it has; that was the original declared aim. The annual return to HMRC – which must show the figure – is compiled to year-end 31 May, even though submission may be later. Hopefully the figure isn't commercially sensitive / confidential, and hence can be shared by the BOD on here. It was 1165 at year-end in 2018, a net increase of 69 in the first year of equality. I'm sure the same 'local' issue has arisen here too. The announcements on the Club's site imply that Lewes players must be Welsh... Does anyone know how many BAME players are in the squad at our inclusive Club?
|
|