dicksmith
Sussex County Division One
COYR
Posts: 298
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Post by dicksmith on Sept 1, 2023 14:45:23 GMT
I have spoken subsequently to the previous owner a number of times who would strenuously deny the club was almost certainly going to go extinct. What facts do you base that on out of interest? Everyone saying it was so does not make it a fact when the only person who would know was the previous owner surely? Well, the previous owner sold it for 1 pound as I heard the story. What that says is that it might not have been extinct, but it certainly wasn't worth much and there weren't other buyers waiting in line......
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Post by stuartnoel on Sept 1, 2023 14:46:45 GMT
I think the work that Martin et al put in was amazing but without a radical change of approach and structure the club’s position at that time would have been incredibly challenging going forward.
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Post by Barry Collins on Sept 1, 2023 15:06:29 GMT
The way i see it is this and I may be wrong, Lewes FC would sell a controlling interest in the women's team for a lump sum investment in the women's team and our facilities. Lewes Fc would therefore retain 49%, which means it retains 49% of the profits generated from that team going forward, to decide for itself how it spends the money. If the team can hold their Championship status, the whole Lewes fc club could well see a substantial rise in income benefitting all levels. If we lose our Championship position, all budgets will need to be reduced and much of the hard work from the past few years could be undone. So if it does go to a vote, these would be my alternatives. a- If you're really just interested in the men and want to see the best possible team we can produce you should vote for the proposal and lobby the club to get some guarantees regarding the budget spend. b- If you like watching both the men & women's team equally, you should vote for the proposal. c- If you're more interested in the politics than the football standard - well you've got a difficult choice. Do we stick to our stated principles and cut our cloth accordingly or do we compromise, possibly for the benefit of all. That's all assuming we make a profit. Right now, I would suspect *nobody* in English women's football is making a profit. In the last financial year for which we have Lewes FC figures, the club effectively lost £800,000 - £625,000 in written off donations and £175,000 drawn down from reserves in the parent company. Without being disrespectful to the current women's squad, it seems highly likely we'd need to make a huge investment in the playing squad to compete for the one automatic promotion slot from this division, and then we'd need to invest again to stay in the WSL. So, we'd need to find a hell of a lot of extra revenue to even break even at our current run rate, let alone with the investment required to compete in the WSL. Maybe Mercury 13 can unlock that extra investment. But we heard the same/similar arguments when we decided to equal the playing budgets. It hasn't happened, and unless there's a massive rush of money into the women's game, I can't see it happening here either. At least, not in the 3-5 year timeframe Mercury 13 are talking about.
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Post by pj on Sept 1, 2023 15:12:22 GMT
I have spoken subsequently to the previous owner a number of times who would strenuously deny the club was almost certainly going to go extinct. What facts do you base that on out of interest? Everyone saying it was so does not make it a fact when the only person who would know was the previous owner surely? Well, the previous owner sold it for 1 pound as I heard the story. What that says is that it might not have been extinct, but it certainly wasn't worth much and there weren't other buyers waiting in line...... My memory isn't what it was, but I recall reading at the time that the club was an hour or so from being wound up over an unpaid tax bill. That sounds quite close to extinction to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2023 15:28:40 GMT
Well, the previous owner sold it for 1 pound as I heard the story. What that says is that it might not have been extinct, but it certainly wasn't worth much and there weren't other buyers waiting in line...... My memory isn't what it was, but I recall reading at the time that the club was an hour or so from being wound up over an unpaid tax bill. That sounds quite close to extinction to me.
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robm99
Isthmian South
Posts: 649
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Post by robm99 on Sept 1, 2023 15:30:56 GMT
12 January 2010 the Argus newspaper reported a tax bill of £47,000 was settled the day before winding-up order was scheduled.
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robm99
Isthmian South
Posts: 649
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Post by robm99 on Sept 1, 2023 15:33:16 GMT
Everyone saying it was so does not make it a fact when the only person who would know was the previous owner surely? ...and don't call me Shirley.
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Post by mightymouse on Sept 1, 2023 15:58:36 GMT
Not sure I can work out how to quote, but Barry, this is in response to your post.
I think it’s an argument of ‘follow the money’. If the investors put money in the club and they’re wrong then what do we lose? 51% of a team that isn’t making money in a league structure that has failed to prosper. They’ll proabably give it back to us. The only reason companies like this invest is because they think it’s a sure bet. We may not like the success it could bring (moving the team to play at a different stadium etc) but there’s every chance it could set the club up as a whole up financially.
My position is based more on what we stand to lose rather than what we gain. I like non league football because it doesn’t have all the glamour stuff of the Premiership. But I didn’t like seeing a poor team play every Saturday and wondering whether we might still exist come the weekend. In the 20 yea4s I’ve been watching Lewes, we’ve always been dependent on investors. We are in a privileged position because we have invested in our women’s football team. I’m not sure what we gain from stopping now.
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Post by Fhorum Mhember 22 on Sept 1, 2023 16:19:15 GMT
That's good to hear, Stu. As a reward, here's some follow-up questions to save you getting bored.
You said early doors that the club had to rush out an announcement when it became aware that other chatterbox parties were about to spill the beans. So if the club's hand hadn't been forced, would we have had even less time to discuss this 🙈😁 Or, and I suspect this is the answer, was the club planning to wait a wee while yet to announce the details, nearer the AGM perhaps?
And regarding the AGM, which isn't that far away now I guess, will the decision on the investment, whichever way it goes, be known by then? Maybe you can't say yet - as in can't be sure. Would be useful for incoming directors to know what they're getting in to (not that I have any plans you understand, just curious). And useful for us as owners to know what platform potential directors are standing on before any vote, should the club's intentions still be up in the air by then.
On the recently discussed point about previous owners, I think a gang led by Ibbo saved the club from being wound up, though obviously we still weren't in great shape back then.
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Post by Fhorum Mhember 22 on Sept 1, 2023 16:26:58 GMT
Nearly forgot ... Mr M Mouse ...
Makes sense what you say. I suppose the worry is that the further we take all this money business, the heavier it can all come crashing down. So we're needing to fill £800k at current levels from friendly benefactors, if we push on then presumably this increases - but if it all goes t1ts up (other body parts are available), in the sense that we have an operation demanding £X squillions, but that money is no longer there, then that could be a tricky situation to remedy.
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Post by sadfaceemoji on Sept 1, 2023 16:28:46 GMT
Well, the previous owner sold it for 1 pound as I heard the story. What that says is that it might not have been extinct, but it certainly wasn't worth much and there weren't other buyers waiting in line...... My memory isn't what it was, but I recall reading at the time that the club was an hour or so from being wound up over an unpaid tax bill. That sounds quite close to extinction to me. No it was not PJ. There was a date in court with HMRC but this was a customary business stalling tactic. Mr Elliott had to get rid of the club and there were interested parties. That is a fact. In order to protect his investment he wanted to string the getting rid of the club for as long as possible in the hope some of those interests evolved into a sound purchase. Far from being about to go bust Mr Elliott had, for a fact, at least one definitive offer he turned down as he felt they were a bad fit. Desperate and close to be wound up we were not.
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Post by stuartnoel on Sept 1, 2023 16:31:22 GMT
stuart the previous board may no longer be in place but there influence still carries weight contrary to what some believe..moving on im curious concerning these proposals who approached who did mercury approach us or did we approach them if we approached them the question must be why now when all previous efforts to get sponsors were largely futile it could be said what incentive was offered what was the carrot i along with others have serious misgivings concerning these proposals something along the lines of to much to soon trying to run before we can walk etc etc etc..and why do they only want 51% it could be said there hedging there bets..and whats the significance of the name athletic?...and lastly if the board deign to put it to the vote whether its to be a yes or no to these proposals and lets suppose the vote says no to these proposals will the board honour the result of such a vote or will it be steamrollered through regardless The nature of fan-ownership means there will always be changes to the board structure - every AGM some will step down, others will be elected. We’ve been open as a board about looking at other investment options. Through individual networks and conversations at events, the discussions started with individuals associated with Mercury13. I’m interested to understand, despite what’s been said and written why you don’t feel there would be integrity in the result of a vote?
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Post by sadfaceemoji on Sept 1, 2023 16:35:29 GMT
I think the work that Martin et al put in was amazing but without a radical change of approach and structure the club’s position at that time would have been incredibly challenging going forward. That is for sure Stuart. But that is a big difference from the misleading use of the club being close to 'extinction'. I'd suggest a fairer terminology is the club were in trying and difficult circumstances but certainly not under threat.
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Post by mightymouse on Sept 1, 2023 16:47:15 GMT
Thanks for your comments Nhorm. The crashing down would only effect us if we’d taken on debt wouldn’t it? But a good point if we are to give a controlling interest , would we be liable for debt based on any decisions by Mercury. I don’t know the answer to that.
As a fan owned club we don’t have a history on voting for anything other than directors. That’s our system. if we have a vote on this it could be advisory to judge the opinion of owners, or it could be binding in the result. The fact that the proposal challenges the structure of the club makes a binding vote compelling, however, trusting a decision to owners who may not be in receipt of the facts or broader knowledge required seems like a bad way of making an important choice. Not sure which way I fall on that one.
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Post by mightymouse on Sept 1, 2023 17:18:11 GMT
Hi Nhorm,
Just taken time to read your post again and 800k is a lot of money! It makes the question of debt even more important. We could cripple the club if we are liable for that kind of money. It also illustrates how far we are from sustaining the club without outside investment. High stakes indeed.
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