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Post by chrisharris on Oct 15, 2022 10:11:11 GMT
2021/22 accounts show our wage bill is a staggering £1,066,000. Trading losses for the year were plugged to the tune of £600,000 by Eddie Ramsden. Far more than Martin Elliot ever did in any one year; and yet he was pilloried by pivotal figures at Lewes FC for ‘bumping up the financials’. Stuart will hopefully correct me if I am wrong, but that is likely £400,000 on players wages and £650,000 on management and support staff. A sort of annual fund has been set up to plug future losses, however do we know for how long it will be around? Stuart has said elsewhere ‘The club set up an endowment fund earlier this year where donations (from individuals and organisations) are held and that is used for specific purposes at the discretion of the board.’ My understanding is at the moment this is the usual deep pocketed suspects! I hope I am wrong, but the club seems to be limping along on the basis it has a pot of gold to sink into; thoughts of being self-sustained are now up there with the fairies. Presumably this fund is not endless and should the army of staff employed by the club fail to bring in the sponsorship to cover the necessary huge trading losses, we may or maybe not go bust. Certainly the Lewes Women, with the huge financial commitments from the Championship licence arrangements, will struggle be financially sustained and will have to cut their cloth accordingly. Great shame as a superb effort! Unless large sponsorship comes in our finances seem to be perilous. The club strategy offers up a wish list of how the club would like to make up the losses and be self-sustained, but it really is, failing some big deals, a wannabe menu of dreams. I would dearly love to be proved wrong. The benefactors will introduce a more practical operating method and junk community ownership? Further less tactful thoughts- if link work july66blog.wordpress.com/2022/10/14/lewes-fc-adopt-the-pissing-in-the-wind-economic-strategy-accounts-2021-22-2/ |
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robm99
Isthmian South
Posts: 648
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Post by robm99 on Oct 15, 2022 11:25:28 GMT
£20,000 a week seems an awful lot for Isthmian. Maybe it's not, I don't know but I can't imagine Bowers paying that amount out.
What are our revenue streams?
Gate money - say £7,000 a game-ish.
Prize money from cup & trophy - £10,000 ish.
Owners - 2,000 @ £60 a year, I make that £270,000 so far. Not pretending to be accurate, just my guesses!
Sponsorship - no idea, to be honest.
Any more from pitch hire, academy, youth teams?
I'm not criticising, just curious.
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Post by everyotherweek on Oct 15, 2022 12:05:27 GMT
I found the figure of £600,000 given by one individual mind-boggling. We know others have also been extremely generous and if that is how they choose to spend their money, fair enough (although personally I'd like to see more of it paid in tax!)
What seems strange to me is that we, quite rightly, make a lot of noise about being a community club with all owners being equal and yet we are dependent on wealthy individuals to retain a vast workforce, doing jobs that, at our level, are usually done by enthusiastic volunteers.
I am probably extremely naive and I'm sure that most supporters couldn't give a monkeys about any of this, but it seems to me that a true owners club would have a budget reflecting their subscriptions plus any sponsorship.
Wealthy individuals owning a club is a different model. I find it hard, and possibly misleading to people who sign up as owners, to try to be both.
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Post by stuartnoel on Oct 15, 2022 12:38:26 GMT
£20,000 a week seems an awful lot for Isthmian. Maybe it's not, I don't know but I can't imagine Bowers paying that amount out. What are our revenue streams? Gate money - say £7,000 a game-ish. Prize money from cup & trophy - £10,000 ish. Owners - 2,000 @ £60 a year, I make that £270,000 so far. Not pretending to be accurate, just my guesses! Sponsorship - no idea, to be honest. Any more from pitch hire, academy, youth teams? I'm not criticising, just curious. It’s not just for the Men’s playing budget Rob. The wage bill includes every member of staff, on and off field, permanent or casual, financed or funded. From what I know and am aware of, our playing budget in the Isthmian Premier League would be at the lower end of the top third. I have limited insight into our Women’s competitive playing budget but at a guess I’d say lower third. The 1st playing squads together make up just over half of that amount. Many of the other roles, as I’ve said before are required as part of our FAW licence BUT are funded by the FA. Others are funded by commercial partners. So you can’t just look at the total wage bill as a stand alone cost. |
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robm99
Isthmian South
Posts: 648
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Post by robm99 on Oct 15, 2022 12:52:23 GMT
£20,000 a week seems an awful lot for Isthmian. Maybe it's not, I don't know but I can't imagine Bowers paying that amount out. What are our revenue streams? Gate money - say £7,000 a game-ish. Prize money from cup & trophy - £10,000 ish. Owners - 2,000 @ £60 a year, I make that £270,000 so far. Not pretending to be accurate, just my guesses! Sponsorship - no idea, to be honest. Any more from pitch hire, academy, youth teams? I'm not criticising, just curious. It’s not just for the Men’s playing budget Rob. The wage bill includes every member of staff, on and off field, permanent or casual, financed or funded. From what I know and am aware of, our playing budget in the Isthmian Premier League would be at the lower end of the top third. I have limited insight into our Women’s competitive playing budget but at a guess I’d say lower third. The 1st playing squads together make up just over half of that amount. Many of the other roles, as I’ve said before are required as part of our FAW licence BUT are funded by the FA. Others are funded by commercial partners. So you can’t just look at the total wage bill as a stand alone cost. Agreed, that was mentioned elsewhere. That ties in with how I imagined it was - roughly. How many employees are there in total? If that's confidential that's fine, I'm not prying! |
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wm
Sussex County Division Two
Posts: 207
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Post by wm on Oct 15, 2022 21:40:37 GMT
No great surprise to see figures like that bandied about.
Looks like last season might have been a big expensive gamble on trying to reach the (comparatively-speaking) big money of the ladies top division.
The extraordinary thing is that the last sponsorship deal announced explicitly said that the club will be lecturing others on financial viability! I wonder if we get taken seriously by anyone?
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dicksmith
Sussex County Division One
COYR
Posts: 298
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Post by dicksmith on Oct 16, 2022 0:29:00 GMT
Looks like last season might have been a big expensive gamble on trying to reach the (comparatively-speaking) big money of the ladies' top division. Far, far from it. Last season for the ladies, and again this season, is just trying to stay alive at the current level. The large majority of the WCL women's teams are now fully professional compared to our part time players. More and more funds are being thrown at the women's teams and we're not going to be able to keep up. Collectively, we promote our Equality FC and other feel-good items as things that make Lewes FC great. EVERY player who comes on parrots the same lines saying how wonderful it is to play for these values. We try to get more milage out of the "value proposition" than it probably deserves. Case in point.... in this year's beautiful "Documentary" Tatiana Saunders was a player to go on about how wonderful it is at Lewes, and how horrible (boo, boo) the away Durham match was as they didn't even bother to stream the game. And then.... as Durham went fully professional this year, Saunder left and signed with Durham. (Just one of 4-5 starters from last season who bailed on us) Women footballers, even at the WCL level, aren't highly paid. As the money flows into the ladies' side, talent will follow the money.... not some wiffy "values". The price of women's football is going up rapidly. Can we keep up? I don't see how. Our budget is around $25,000 per week. Crystal Palace's (a competitor of ours in the WCL) is around 1.3 million a week. Newcastle announced this month that they want to take their women's team from the 4th tier to the WSL by 2025. Their monthly budget is also above 1.3 million a week. Clubs like this can out spend us by a factor of 10 and consider it "loose change". Moving up to the WSL is a pipe dream I'm afraid. |
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rookery
Sussex County Division One
Posts: 469
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Post by rookery on Oct 16, 2022 8:00:19 GMT
yep putting all your eggs in one basket is fraught with danger and could potentialy leave you with a bloody big omlette and NOTHING ELSE
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daveevans
Sussex County Division Two
Posts: 152
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Post by daveevans on Oct 16, 2022 10:18:16 GMT
Looks like last season might have been a big expensive gamble on trying to reach the (comparatively-speaking) big money of the ladies' top division. Far, far from it. Last season for the ladies, and again this season, is just trying to stay alive at the current level. The large majority of the WCL women's teams are now fully professional compared to our part time players. More and more funds are being thrown at the women's teams and we're not going to be able to keep up. Collectively, we promote our Equality FC and other feel-good items as things that make Lewes FC great. EVERY player who comes on parrots the same lines saying how wonderful it is to play for these values. We try to get more milage out of the "value proposition" than it probably deserves. Case in point.... in this year's beautiful "Documentary" Tatiana Saunders was a player to go on about how wonderful it is at Lewes, and how horrible (boo, boo) the away Durham match was as they didn't even bother to stream the game. And then.... as Durham went fully professional this year, Saunder left and signed with Durham. (Just one of 4-5 starters from last season who bailed on us) Women footballers, even at the WCL level, aren't highly paid. As the money flows into the ladies' side, talent will follow the money.... not some wiffy "values". The price of women's football is going up rapidly. Can we keep up? I don't see how. Our budget is around $25,000 per week. Crystal Palace's (a competitor of ours in the WCL) is around 1.3 million a week. Newcastle announced this month that they want to take their women's team from the 4th tier to the WSL by 2025. Their monthly budget is also above 1.3 million a week. Clubs like this can out spend us by a factor of 10 and consider it "loose change". Moving up to the WSL is a pipe dream I'm afraid. Good luck to Tatiana. While she was here, I believe she really liked Lewes as a football club and as a community. When she was unable to play through suspension, she came and helped the Supporters Club with the foodbank collection before a men's home match. She attended events to speak for the club and promote its ethos. The women players are competitors, just like the men, and if they have the chance to go fully professional and earn more elsewhere, it's really a 'no brainer' much as they might love our values while they are here. I really liked her and we'll always remember that goal against Liverpool, but I hope she gets a sore back today, picking the ball up from the back of the Durham net! Also, we have some excellent keepers here this season who are as good as Tatiana if not better. We have moved on, too. More generally, it is indeed hard to see how small clubs like our (eg Durham?) who do not have an EPL or men's Championship club behind them, can survive in the long term. If the women's game just goes on trying to mirror the structure of the men's game, the money that is starting to come into the game will get swallowed up by the establishment and clubs like ours, values and all, will slip away. This is why the review of the women's game is going to be so important and you can bet your life that Maggie will be arguing for a fair deal that will enable clubs like our to have a chance. I hope she succeeds but in the meantime, our financial position looks very worrying indeed. |
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robm99
Isthmian South
Posts: 648
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Post by robm99 on Oct 16, 2022 10:35:32 GMT
The whole football finance thing (at all clubs) is interesting. Some clubs in our division average less than 250 attendances. How do they survive? (A club like Brightlingsea must have big travel costs to contend with as well). Maybe 4G pitches and kids' teams. How much do they pay players? No idea and frankly, none of my business. Sporting Newham recently had a "crowd" of 14!
No doubt it's complicated and full of guesswork for the likes of us mere supporters. BIG clubs with massive debts - it's all going to end in tears for some of the biggest names in the sport.
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dicksmith
Sussex County Division One
COYR
Posts: 298
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Post by dicksmith on Oct 16, 2022 12:09:48 GMT
The women players are competitors, just like the men, and if they have the chance to go fully professional and earn more elsewhere, it's really a 'no brainer' much as they might love our values while they are here. My point exactly. The $$$ will out-pull the great values. The 4-5 starters that we lost did not go to teams in higher divisions. They were essentially lateral moves. Since I haven't heard of any other "issues" at the club that would cause players to seek employment elsewhere, it can be chalked up to lack of $$$ on our part. |
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Post by Trojandog (Terry M) on Oct 16, 2022 17:05:03 GMT
Looks like last season might have been a big expensive gamble on trying to reach the (comparatively-speaking) big money of the ladies' top division. Far, far from it. Last season for the ladies, and again this season, is just trying to stay alive at the current level. The large majority of the WCL women's teams are now fully professional compared to our part time players. More and more funds are being thrown at the women's teams and we're not going to be able to keep up. Collectively, we promote our Equality FC and other feel-good items as things that make Lewes FC great. EVERY player who comes on parrots the same lines saying how wonderful it is to play for these values. We try to get more milage out of the "value proposition" than it probably deserves. Case in point.... in this year's beautiful "Documentary" Tatiana Saunders was a player to go on about how wonderful it is at Lewes, and how horrible (boo, boo) the away Durham match was as they didn't even bother to stream the game. And then.... as Durham went fully professional this year, Saunder left and signed with Durham. (Just one of 4-5 starters from last season who bailed on us) Women footballers, even at the WCL level, aren't highly paid. As the money flows into the ladies' side, talent will follow the money.... not some wiffy "values". The price of women's football is going up rapidly. Can we keep up? I don't see how. Our budget is around $25,000 per week. Crystal Palace's (a competitor of ours in the WCL) is around 1.3 million a week. Newcastle announced this month that they want to take their women's team from the 4th tier to the WSL by 2025. Their monthly budget is also above 1.3 million a week. Clubs like this can out spend us by a factor of 10 and consider it "loose change". Moving up to the WSL is a pipe dream I'm afraid. Our women's budget is £25k a week? In your dreams. That's £1.3m a year. Palace and Newcastle's women's budget is £1.3m a week? Do be serious. |
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dicksmith
Sussex County Division One
COYR
Posts: 298
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Post by dicksmith on Oct 16, 2022 17:46:09 GMT
"Our women's budget is £25k a week? In your dreams. That's £1.3m a year."
No, more like our total budget
"Palace and Newcastle's women's budget is £1.3m a week? Do be serious."
That's their total weekly budget.
Sorry if that was not clear.
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Post by stuartnoel on Oct 16, 2022 19:45:08 GMT
"Our women's budget is £25k a week? In your dreams. That's £1.3m a year." No, more like our total budget "Palace and Newcastle's women's budget is £1.3m a week? Do be serious." That's their total weekly budget. Sorry if that was not clear. I mentioned earlier that just over half of the total wage bill is on the playing budget. Whilst it is split 50/50, due to the dynamics of the respective seasons, the weekly amounts are not the same - for instance, the Men’s players are not paid during pre-season. |
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tressell
Sussex County Division Two
Posts: 156
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Post by tressell on Oct 17, 2022 15:08:05 GMT
Whatever the details its surely the problem of trying to manage two professional teams at what is a small non league club with an inevitably restricted catchment area.
Maybe if we are a national conference side looking to break into league , even then its tricky. Just because money is at the moment being pumped into women's football in general . If we are not the ones generating that income we have no control over it and gates for a Ryman league mens and a second division womens team will not support such an outlay.
Is Liz Truss an advisor?
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