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Post by James on Mar 1, 2019 14:01:18 GMT
Something more laudable (in my opinion) would be a “all gate money goes to charity” day. Surely that is less discriminatory and arguably more deserving.
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johnpeel
Sussex County Division Three
Posts: 58
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Post by johnpeel on Mar 1, 2019 14:41:09 GMT
It’s not for me to enter into a debate on what is a fans forum but I can assure you that the offer of free admission to public sector workers was absolutely aimed at making a generous offer to those in our society and community that help the most vulnerable and in need. The emergency services, nurses, social carers, those working in older people’s homes and caring for the elderly, those working in temporary and emergency accommodation and with the homeless, mental health workers and those working with children in need and in poverty. Yes, plumbers et al do a great job but there are those in society and our own community with much more severe need than a broken boiler as much of a pain as that is. As a poster here pointed out, it would be nonsensical to means-test those coming through the gate and it is entirely possible that a hospital chief executive or A N Other paid circa £200k could come in for free. Do I think that is likely? No. Their income is sufficient enough that it’s unlikely £12 would have ever have been a barrier. Do I think it is likely that those the offer is intended toward will be grateful? A resounding yes. On a separate issue, the Brinkhurst family will be fundraising at the game for the Sussex Heart Charity. I do hope that those attending will be able to give as much as they can to a great cause. Thanks for the response, John. I understand what you mean about keeping the area free for fans to air their views, but I think we all enjoy and appreciate the replies we get back (from Stuart in the main). My issue I guess is that I don't see a difference between public and private sector workers - I just see workers. I think there are heroes (and villains) in both sectors. There may well be public sector workers carrying out demanding, stressful jobs (as there are private sector workers), and there may be others just pushing paper around a council (or other) office. I don't like this "my job's more worthy than yours" rhetoric - there are people performing (less important?) jobs, like mechanic, or petrol station manager, or train driver, who help public (and private) sector people get to work in the first place - for example. Perhaps there's one difference I see - in my view (maybe a skewed view), conditions are better in the public sector - there's more of a safety net? I've just read the latest Owners e-mail - which says that public sector workers are "the people who actually run the country” - I see how that might be the case, in terms of MPs or something - but on the whole I find the statement condescending. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm also a bit confused about the message now. Initially, it seemed to be about rewarding people who perform special duties. But above you suggest, I think, that it's aimed at people for whom £12 is a barrier? But there are low-paid workers in various jobs - possibly moreso in the private sector. And presumably these people will need to pay £12 next time (assuming they come back)? I understand the stuff, mentioned by various people, about getting new people through the door, and how they might come back, and so on. But that seems rather arbitrary - we could offer all sorts to get more people into the Pan - free entry for pilots/vets/scaffolders, or West Ham fans, or people called Kev ("My name's Kev, and so's my wife's"), or Sid James lookalikes. Anything really. So for me, yeah, it's nice to offer a special deal - but why just to certain people? I've been on jury service this week (nearly ran into you in Palmeira Sq, on Monday I think) - which, due to the nature of my work, I'm basically doing in my own time - I guess if I was in the public sector, or working for a larger company and not just myself, I'd be able to do this on full pay. How about free entry for hard-pressed Jurors - performing a public duty, unpaid This is quite detailed so might be best if we chat at a game about this? Happy to do so tomorrow if you decide to come along or any other time. Fwiw that offer extends to any other fan at any game regardless of topic (as I think Stu mentioned here somewhere). I would say that life in the public sector isn't a rosy as portrayed in the media- compulsory redundancies are now common place across the country and a real-term pay decrease has been in place since 2010. There's been a shrinkage in staff and extra pressures placed upon services due to things such as universal credit amongst others (or austerity as a general banner) meaning longer hours and more pressure for less. Problems with pay and conditions is not confined to the public sector, of course. And yes, that was likely me- Palmeira Square is on my regular route to work
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Post by chrisharris on Mar 1, 2019 14:53:38 GMT
I entirely agree with the exceptionally well put case against the defence by Nhorm. However I am delighted to see the club trying to bring new LOCAL supporters in rather than the tedious attempts at a ‘global audience’ (deceased?) Yes, the continued shift to do it via politically correct gimmickry, establishing us as the darling liberals of football is a massive turn off for a lot of our fan base. Including me, an old fashioned leftie. The conduit for the latest initiative is misplaced to many. Indeed to maybe stand next to some of the not so good public sector workers I have had dealings with in the past is a grim prospect, especially as they are in for free and I am a paid regular for 20 years. But the endgame is to build the fan base and build for the future and as such this is a pretty good way to do it. Along the way some of us will have our noses put out of joint. Who knows, maybe a Trade Union will come in and offer a huge sponsorship deal ?
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Post by peoplesgame on Mar 1, 2019 15:45:34 GMT
I entirely agree with the exceptionally well put case against the defence by Nhorm. However I am delighted to see the club trying to bring new LOCAL supporters in rather than the tedious attempts at a ‘global audience’ (deceased?) Yes, the continued shift to do it via politically correct gimmickry, establishing us as the darling liberals of football is a massive turn off for a lot of our fan base. Including me, an old fashioned leftie. The conduit for the latest initiative is misplaced to many. Indeed to maybe stand next to some of the not so good public sector workers I have had dealings with in the past is a grim prospect, especially as they are in for free and I am a paid regular for 20 years. But the endgame is to build the fan base and build for the future and as such this is a pretty good way to do it. Along the way some of us will have our noses put out of joint. Who knows, maybe a Trade Union will come in and offer a huge sponsorship deal ? Ha! www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wt0vtNvg98
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Post by Fhorum Mhember 22 on Mar 1, 2019 19:11:09 GMT
It was lunchtime. Think you were coming out of a sandwich shop ahead of me. Catch you in the bar sometime. I'll buy since times are hard - but suspect we're done and dusted anyway.
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Post by Fhorum Mhember 22 on Mar 1, 2019 19:14:27 GMT
Nice video kev - was that before you got into football?
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Post by peoplesgame on Mar 1, 2019 19:44:30 GMT
Nice video kev - was that before you got into football? Yes... When everything was such a carry on...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 19:47:44 GMT
Lewes will not be the first club to acknowledge public sector workers in this way. The pay thing is certainly one factor in that many in the public sector have seen their pay frozen for six or seven years and unlike the private sector there is no way of even trying to mitigate against this.
More than this, services have been squeezed in so many ways and underresourced and yet expectations have gone up and up. Many public sector staff have gone the extra mile again and again because they believe in public service. So I think this appreciation of the public sector goes way beyond the idea of staff being underpaid and is about the preservation of the services themselves.
I agree with Nhorm though that we shouldn't ignore the fact that there are many outside the public sector who do valuable jobs, work equally long hours and are just as hard up or deserving.
Nobody that I mix with, in or out of the public sector, is mollycoddled!
Personally, as someone with extensive experience in both sectors, I feel there really is something special about public service but I didn't ever do it in the hope of freebies and anyone looking for material benefits would be better off looking elsewhere. I appreciate the idea behind the public sector day but think it has backfired and alienated some fans, sadly.
Also I've paid for my season ticket so won't be benefitting unless I can persuade John Peel to give me a tenner!
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believer
Sussex County Division One
Posts: 430
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Post by believer on Mar 2, 2019 8:56:41 GMT
Love me or hate me (and I’m beginning to think that there are more in the second category) this thread was slow to pick up and exploded to the longest and most read in months once I aired my thoughts ( I’m not arrogant enough to take all the credit for that). My point being that the forum is here for discussion and anything that provokes that is good. All sides of the debate are good to hear and sometimes hearing the other side helps stop you becoming too entrenched in your position. Darren gets upset if I criticise his players ( understandably so) but they are paid to do a job and I help pay them so if I don’t think they are doing it well I will say so. They are not kids after all. Anyway, those of you that are going have a good time at the game today. I’ll be looking out for the result. COYR.
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Post by brettlee666 on Mar 2, 2019 10:27:30 GMT
Believer, is your name ironic? I find you to be anything but a believer!where does all the negativity come from? We clearly far from top of the budgets in this league yet we have more than held our own against some high earning squads! I firmly believe we would be continuing to do so if it wasn't for such an awful run of injuries. New players in and out, take time to settle in, yet you seem to expect instant results?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 11:07:41 GMT
But many of our players ARE very young. Some play for nothing and for most the pay might just about cover travel costs. I don't think any of our players are living the high life from their football earnings. If we had Alexis Sanchez up front I'd be at the front of the queue for dishing out criticism, but we're not in that situation so I think we ought to be slow to criticise, especially individual players.
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Post by Fhorum Mhember 22 on Mar 2, 2019 11:40:51 GMT
Baron, despite often portraying you as a villain, I know that work-wise you are one of the heroes. Even your tea's not bad, compared to the other fellow's. We've talked often about your work. I've talked to other public sector people about their work, including people I worked alongside before they moved to the dark side (public sector, not Edinburgh). I guess that's how I've formed my views. Plus I read the Daily Mail from cover to cover, which gives me the moral high ground. So I respect what you say. I hear you about cuts etc. But I think everyone has had to adjust these past ten years, in terms of conditions, renumeration, pensions, whatever - except maybe those at the very top. And maybe the changes in the public sector have just made it a bit more like the real world. Or maybe not. It's difficult for either of us to have clear, objective views on that. Maybe not the best analogy, but to me this is like having free entry for Rangers fans. It might put bums on seats (pun intended, Billy Nixon), and they've had a tough ten years, but I'd skip that match on the basis that it creates an unfair distinction. At a time when society seems to be getting more divisive, we need to have respect for each other, treat each other as equals. Hope that's not too Lewes liberal leftie, or Claret Clydeside. Arbitrary selection of some people for special treatment doesn't seem the way to go. What next - free entry for distressed furniture sellers? Specific rewards - yeah. We both know the volunteers at the club. We know who goes above and beyond. Giving an accolade to David last season, excellent. Or we know people for whom getting to the Pan, or getting around the Pan, is more difficult than it is for the rest of us. If the club wants to do something for them, then great. Deserved. (Though maybe also patronising, so perhaps not) Or if an ambulance crew attends a match, for a player/fan, and their care is such that we want to get them back as our guests, then great. But sweeping distinctions, nah. Maybe we need to continue this in the bar as well. But you're buying. Or I'm seeing Pells for a beer next week - feel free to join - bring a friend if you feel outnumbered
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Post by Fhorum Mhember 22 on Mar 2, 2019 11:47:38 GMT
Believer, can't say I love you - there are limits. But you're one of the good guys, and as I've said to you often, you'd be a great addition to our top table. I know you have commitments, including running a business - but you work in the private sector, what's the problem
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 12:05:03 GMT
Nhorm, I'll buy you a half of beer festival remnants if that's ok. I'll even get you a pass for the public sector VIP reserved zone in the Rook Inn (comfy chairs, free drinks, canapes, Sky TV etc)
You'll see from my earlier posts that I'm not necessarily keen on the public sector day, but I was trying to identify why many people do get protective of public services and those who work in them. I think there are valid and understandable reasons for this.
I hope you guys will still come today and make your feelings known to the BoD rather than staying away. It is Whitehawk, we need a win, they're in good form and our boys need the support. If we lose we will all have to emigrate to avoid Kev Miller. COYR!
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believer
Sussex County Division One
Posts: 430
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Post by believer on Mar 2, 2019 14:49:56 GMT
Thanks Nhorm. How about I meet you, Pells and Baronsdown for that drink and we can put the world to rights. I’ll buy.🤪
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